Spirit Airlines Biden Administration Moving to Block Merger, Spirit contract negotiation history question, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Total estimated combined fleet count by 2026: 493 aircraft, Total estimated Spirit fleet count by 2027: 293 aircraft, In March 2022, Spirit announced the ATL and MIA. Much smaller Spirit. When do VOR's switch from magnetic to true north. The Air Line Pilots Association said Spirit's new contract agreement represents an economic gain of $463 million, or 27% over the next two years, for the pilots. 15% defined contribution; Pilot may contribute additional to either Traditional or Roth side of 401K Funds in 401K may may be moved to a PCRA Account to invest in individual stocks or investments. We anticipate you could interpret that data to suggest it will probably be closer to what youve experienced in the past, Christie said. The estimated total pay for a Pilot at Spirit Airlines is $96,068 per year. Today 2:44 pm by illuminato. Are guys finishing sims / on the line before 90 days? The covid pandemic impacted that, mostly because none of us were hiring pilots in 2020. WATCH VIDEO. Global Business and Financial News, Stock Quotes, and Market Data and Analysis. In July 2022, Spirit announced the addition of an IAH base effective October 2022. Spirit Airlines Pilots Approve Collective Bargaining Agreement. Browse an unrivalled portfolio of real-time and historical market data and insights from worldwide sources and experts. x 12 in., dimensions appropriate if you intend to bring a Mountie hat aboard but that otherwise reflect no travel bag you own. Spirit Airlines PAYSCALES CAPTAIN PAY SCALE (Hourly) FIRST OFFICER PAY SCALE (Hourly) PAY CALCULATOR (Click and drag the sliders) Pay Rate: $150 Credit Time: 75 Hours Bid Periods: 1 Percentage: 1 $11,250 PAY NOTES 12 year CA DOS +4 is $260/hr 12 year FO DOS +4 is $172/hr Monthly guarantee: 72 hours Reserve guarantee: 72 hours Spirit Media RelationsMedia_Relations@spirit.com, Investor Relations Contact DeAnne Gabel(954) 447-7920investorrelations@spirit.com. Step 3: Enter passengers' Flight change Desk codes or last names to access the dashboard. Click here to submit bases addition, effective June 2022. Step 4: Select "Spirit number ticket" to make the Flight change Desk from the dashboard. The airline flies Embraer E-Jets for American Airlines, Delta Air Lines, and United Airlines. The airline canceled 563 Monday flights and nearly 300 Sunday flights. By logging into your account, you agree to our. Pilots at Spirit Airlines Inc. approved a two-year contract agreement that will boost their pay by an average of 34% over that period, signaling how growing competition for aviators is. Average Spirit Airlines Pilot yearly pay in the United States is approximately $77,890, which is 17% above the national average. Please use the form below to contact our customer service or sales team. Is this a nationwide strike currently in effect? Spirit spokespersons did not respond to emails. Spirit Airlines Inc. shareholders are voting whether to merge with Frontier Airlines or JetBlue Airways Corp. Airline Pilot Interview Gouge: This is the section that started it all! company, and ensured job security at Spirit. We have been contacted by major union legal teams regarding this issue. ALPA said the deal involves "zero concessions" on the part of Spirit pilots. This supply-demand gap is projected to last until 2027. It is irrelevant whether the union itself has anything to do with the action. Major unions have lost court cases and in one instance suffered severe financial damage in the process. If you are a resident of another country or region, please select the appropriate version of Tripadvisor for your country or region in the drop-down menu. Come save with us at spirit.com. The $39,000 salary is about. In a letter sent to members last month, Muller said he is concerned that Spirit has no intent to raise pilot wages over the next five years. This was posted from the Facebook page of the Spirit Airlines Master Executive Council, ALPA (the pilots' union) on Friday 5th May, asking pilots to *not* take industrial action - http://spirit.alpa.org/portals/spamec/commdocs/2017-5-5MEC.pdf, "Over the past several days, Spirit Airlines has experienced a high level of (ta && ta.queueForLoad ? The existing contract was signed March 1, 2018 and does not become amendable until March 1, 2023. ta.queueForLoad : function(f, g){document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', f);})(function(){ta.trackEventOnPage('postLinkInline', 'impression', 'postLinks-83177252', '');}, 'log_autolink_impression');flight cancelled out of DTW just now. Step 2: Go to the "My Trips" section/. Our business address is: Seems like there's some (ta && ta.queueForLoad ? 750 hours in multi-engine, turboprop or jet aircraft. The deal is yet more evidence of the bargaining power pilots are enjoying as carriers staff up to meet booming travel demand. The industrys outlook was summarized last month on United Airlines April 21st earnings call, when CEO Scott Kirby said that airlines need to hire 13,000 pilots this year but training produces just 5,000 to 7,000 pilots annually. Overall, it would lead to a 34% cumulative weighted average increase in pay rates for Spirit pilots, the memo said. Also, ask questions about pilot training here. Pilot pay at Spirit Airlines ranges from $33,264.00 per year for a new first officer up to $155,520.00 per year for a senior captain. Contact Information Phone: 1-954-447-7828 Spirit Careers: Overview. Official posting and information can be found here:http://bit.ly/3iT1MWb. Is AQP coming to initial training at Spirit anytime soon? Spirit Airlines, Inc. Oct 24, 2022, 08:00 ET MIRAMAR, Fla., Oct. 24, 2022 /PRNewswire/ -- Spirit Airlines (NYSE: SAVE) and CAE (NYSE: CAE) today announced the launch of the Spirit Wings. We will go . "This agreementstands in stark contrast to previous bargaining cycles at Spirit and other large jet carriers, where pilots have endured years of stagnating compensation while negotiating comprehensive pilot contracts," said Spirit's pilot union head Ryan Muller. On Monday, August 2, it was the second consecutive day that the budget airlines decided to disrupt their service. Cape Air is looking more and more attractive to me these days, especially being able to live in the United pays 3 hours per day for every day (including days off) during new hire training. If ratified by the pilots, the two-year agreement will become effective on Jan. 1. Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own. Estimates on the size of the shortfall vary. Asked about this some time ago, but I heard the rumor again. We are committed to inspiring positive change in the communities where we live and work through the Spirit Charitable Foundation. Forum Tools Search this Forum . Spirit Airlines makes a deal Two months ago, a nascent. Minimum Pilot Requirements to Apply: Airline Transport Pilot rating 3,000 total fixed wing hours. Passport discussion. But you can only get Saver$ Club fares if you purchase a membership, which carries the following costs: In July, Spirit agreed to sell itself to JetBlue Airways Corp in a $3.8 billion deal, which is expected to close no later than the first half of 2024. New headquarters and advanced training center construction began in Dania Beach, a suburb of Fort Lauderdale, Spirit Airlines announced in October 2019 it will place a firm order for 100 A320neo-family jets. So even though they don't overtly sell interline (multi-carrier) tickets it's quite possible they have interline agreements with other carriers solely to enable rebooking in cases of IRROPS. Spirit is putting people on other people's airplanes? Wait so 90 days at $2500/m? My girlfriend was just affected by this in O'Hare. Spirit Airlines Pilots Approve Collective Bargaining Agreement MIRAMAR, Fla., Jan. 10, 2023 - Spirit Airlines (NYSE: SAVE) today announced that its Pilots, who are members of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), have ratified an amended collective bargaining agreement. more, You seem to have JavaScript disabled. The deal is yet more evidence of. SAVE The crisis we see today is because demand is coming in so quickly and management didnt plan for it. Sign up for free newsletters and get more CNBC delivered to your inbox. A date for a union member vote on the offer was not immediately known. Nine (ta && ta.queueForLoad ? MEMPHIS, Tenn. ( WMC /Gray News) - A FedEx pilot was shot in the middle of the night while asleep in bed, WMC confirmed. Spirit Airlines has offered as much as a 43% cumulative weighted average pay raise to its pilots over two years, according to a union memo seen by Reuters. We are more efficient than they are at the majors because we push more units [with] more seats per aircraft, he said. (Photo by Joe Raedle). All Rights Reserved. I have never hated going to work. Through the Spirit Wings Pilot Pathway program, student pilots receive mentorship, program guidance and a clearly defined path to becoming a first officer at Spirit Airlines. The Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), which represents pilots at the ultra-low-cost carrier, said the new contract agreement represents an economic gain of $463 million or 27% over the next two years for the pilots. Rent them out. Our normal business hours are Monday-Friday 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. (Pacific Time). This applies to ANY wildcat actions, including slowdown, work-to-rules, withdrawal of enthusiasm (WOE), sickouts, etc. 3. Tajer said the crisis reflects the slow pace in the pipeline from pilot training to actual flying and the tendency by airlines to schedule pilots to the limits of FAA maximums, which mean that weather disruptions cannot be accommodated. Access unmatched financial data, news and content in a highly-customised workflow experience on desktop, web and mobile. Our normal business hours are Monday-Friday 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. (Pacific Time). My (ta && ta.queueForLoad ? Attn: Airline Pilot Central The estimated additional pay is $16,913 per year. Spirit Airlines -Online Ticket -Reservations +1-872-242-4786 The flights of the Spirit Airlines are available at different time slots and make it very appropriate for them to book and travel. World magazine, the strike cost Spirit Airlines $19 million while the company. Growth is expected, yet even if that numbers stays the same, that equates to a surplus of 4,000 pilots annually. Most major airlines are in negotiations at this time, and many are contentious. . You can also reach us at (800) 573-1848. In the pipeline, there is a gap from getting a license to getting the flight experience, Tajer said. It comes a week after Delta Air Lines offered a 34% cumulative pay increase to its pilots over . Spirit Airlines has offered as much as a 43% cumulative weighted average pay raise to its pilots over two years, according to a union memo seen by Reuters. I love learning and teaching and would look forward to continuing with the training department, To fly modern equipment in a fun environment like this airline. All quotes delayed a minimum of 15 minutes. Did you call in sick to make it to the interview. ta.queueForLoad : function(f, g){document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', f);})(function(){ta.trackEventOnPage('postLinkInline', 'impression', 'postLinks-83175496', '');}, 'log_autolink_impression');flights canceled but there's nothing wrong everything is going according to normal. Spirit Airlines Master Executive Council This is the official webpage of the Spirit MEC. Hawaiian Airlines offers the option to keep the temperature above your age for the duration of your career. Spirit spokespersons did not respond to emails. Kirby said U.S. pilot training schools produce between 5,000 to 7,000 pilots a year. I have a phone interview this week, but I want to prepare for the terribleness that is Spirit training pay if the new TA isn't approved. This applies to ANY wildcat actions, including slowdown, work-to-rules, withdrawal of enthusiasm (WOE), sickouts, etc. Asked about this some time ago, but I heard the rumor again. Rates do not include 2% A321 override which is received on a monthly percentage basis of A321 block hours to total block hours flown and is paid to all pilots regardless of which aircraft you fly. The pilot can also select TRU when outside the polar region. How fast do you have to fly from HNL-SYD to never see the sun set? SAVE The industry leader for online information for tax, accounting and finance professionals. More aircraft installations are in development. ALPA said the proposed contract will cover 3,100 Spirit pilots. Captain/ Instructor Pilot (Current Employee) - Dallas-Fort Worth, TX - April 7, 2020. The Company also notified us that they intend to seek emergency relief in federal court against such activity if it does not cease immediately. And it's nice to see that their ability to lie to the passengers continues. Yeah right. Also, dont forget that you get no healthcare coverage for the same period. If pilots are already scheduled to the maximum, then their schedules cannot be automatically extended to accommodate weather events. 1.7k Spirt Airlines Status Challenge Info This is a good profession, he noted. 02-28-2023, 07:39 PM. 10 people were reportedly taken to the hospital with injuries that weren't life threatening injuries . The Company has informed us that it believes the primary cause of this problem is lack of volunteers for open time flying and has accused the Association and Spirit pilots of instigating a concerted action to disrupt operations by discouraging pilots from picking up this flying. When the aircraft enters the polar region it will auto switch to TRU. Research Notes. Pay rates for A319/A320/A321. Grid must start out the month with 75% green days, Roughly one-half of Spirit's revenue is generated from ancillary (carry-on baggage, baggage, etc) fees, This page last updated: January 25, 2023 (Quickyake, Pilots, Fleet). 1000. Screen for heightened risk individual and entities globally to help uncover hidden risks in business relationships and human networks. Our Fit Fleet is one of the youngest and most fuel-efficient in the United States. The pilot union has planned roadshows between Dec. 14-20 to generate support for the deal. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. A media report that the United Arab Emirates is considering leaving OPEC is "far from the truth," two sources with direct knowledge of the matter told Reuters. Spirit Airlines pilots have ratified a two-year contract with management that will produce $463 million in economic gains including an average 34% pay hike, the Air Line Pilots . heard a rumor that that was changed as of today per the townhall, Where can we listen to the townhall?Tried listening in and it wasnt loading for me, Light Reading on the State of The Industry, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. For decades, Spirit Airlines, based in the Spirit States, has provided assistance to travelers. The deal is yet more evidence of the bargaining power pilots are enjoying as carriers staff up to meet booming travel demand. We still maintain a unit cost advantage no matter what. The rules here have not changed, but the enforcement will now result in a 30 day ban from APC for violations. Captain Pay Rates (yearly) Next >> Captain Pay Rates (hourly) Next >> Know the payrates for other aircrafts? It is against the APC Forum Rules to advocate any labor action which is not authorized by the RLA/NMB. We are the leader in providing customizable travel options starting with an unbundled fare. Rumors of a Spirit Airlines pilot strike emerged on social media over the weekend after hundreds of cancelations and . Reuters provides business, financial, national and international news to professionals via desktop terminals, the world's media organizations, industry events and directly to consumers. When do VOR's switch from magnetic to true north. Management is failing to connect the pilots to the airlines.. Data is a real-time snapshot *Data is delayed at least 15 minutes. Threads in Forum: Spirit Airlines | Free Spirit. Thx. Reply. They did put me on SW flight tonight w stop, refunded ticket. The offer comes a week after Delta Air Lines offered a 34% cumulative pay increase to its pilots over three years in a new contract. Current Unrestricted Airline Transport Pilot License with multi-engine land. Online posts, including anonymous posts and posts made here on APC, have been used in lawsuits against unions. I have been given the chance to rapidly advance in a growing company that thrives off of innovation in a very competitive industry. 2,500 hours total time in fixed wing aircraft. 909 N. Sepulveda Blvd, 11th Floor The two-year deal represents an economic gain of . It is against the APC Forum Rules to advocate any labor action which is not authorized by the RLA/NMB. See here for a complete list of exchanges and delays. Copyright 2005-2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Online posts, including anonymous posts and posts made here on APC, have been used in lawsuits against unions. and and voucher for hotel? Spirit - Airline Pilot Central Forums Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Major > Spirit Notices It is against the APC Forum Rules to advocate any labor action which is not authorized by the RLA/NMB. All rights reserved. On the Spirit call, Christie said that while pilot training was disrupted by the pandemic, data shows that post that dip, the lines were all trending up. Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own. Please use the form below to contact our customer service or sales team. Pilot Pay All Companies How much do Spirit Airlines Pilots make? It is being offered in collaboration with the university . Spirit Airlines pilots have ratified a two-year contract with management that will produce $463 million in economic gains including an average 34% pay hike, the Air . What is the current training pay? A Spirit Airlines Airbus A319-132 takes off from Los Angeles international Airport in January 2021. . Very updated information and lots of feedback from different pilots. I checked the two links in USBT's post but there is the same info there now as last night and Googling just brings up the canceled FL (ta && ta.queueForLoad ? On July 27, 2022, Spirit and Frontier mutually terminated their planned merger. A date for a union member vote on the offer was not immediately known. Average captain's pay to increase 25% over the contract . On July 28, 2022, Spirit and jetBlue Airways entered into a definitive merger agreement, valued at $3.8B, in which the two airlines will merge, with the jetBlue brand and product surviving. We have been contacted by major union legal teams regarding this issue. After reducing headcount by thousands during the depths of the pandemic, airlines are grappling with a shortage of pilots, enhancing the bargaining power of workers. New agreements between American Airlines' subsidiaries Envoy and Piedmont Airlines both fly under the American Eagle brand and their pilots union, the Air Line Pilots Association or. A couple years ago when I had to get my wisdom teeth taken out. While Spirit's shareholders have approved the merger, the fate of the deal hinges on securing regulatory approvals. Our Team Members develop their careers rapidly while building key skills that drive long-term success. Filter Found 2 of over 540 interviews Sort Popular Popular Most Recent Oldest First Easiest Most Difficult Interviews at Spirit Airlines Experience Positive 100% Getting an Interview Employee Referral 50% Applied online 50% The rules here have not changed, but the enforcement will now result in a 30 day ban from APC for violations. I think because SAVE is currently trading at $19.xx and the B6 purchase price is $31.50 plus the ticking fee. If the deal is approved, Spirit's ULCC model will be abandoned and all Spirit planes will be repainted and refitted with jetBlue interiors. If ratified by the pilots, the two-year agreement will become effective on Jan. 1. And this is the moment I took a mental snapshot of. Id recommend getting your food stamp application in pronto. Spirit is still hugely profitable so has some money to help out here. The carrier has about 3,000 pilots. Death toll in strike on Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia rises to 11 - officials, Reporting by Rajesh Kumar Singh; Editing by Aurora Ellis, Rheinmetall in talks on building tank factory in Ukraine - report, Exclusive: IndiGo pits Boeing against Airbus in record jet order talks, Air Canada pilots decry 'embarrassing' pay gap with U.S. after Delta deal, Media report that UAE considering leaving OPEC not true - sources, Brazil's Petrobras faces legal risks after halting asset sales -lawyers, France's nuclear output hit by strike at EDF, Indonesian officials call for audit after Pertamina fire kills 15, American Airlines, flight attendants union seek mediation in contract negotiations, Exclusive news, data and analytics for financial market professionals, Ukrainian pilot pair in Arizona to fly military simulators -US officials. Is there a website I can keep checking for updated news on the possible strike? The deal is yet more evidence of the bargaining power pilots are enjoying as carriers staff up to meet booming travel demand. Spirit Airlines Pilot Interview Questions Updated Jun 18, 2019 Find Interviews To filter interviews, Sign In or Register. Flights are up just 3 percent year-over-three-years in the first quarter. This growth also brings Hawaiian Airlines firmly into the Major Airline category; look for monthly pilot hiring . ta.queueForLoad : function(f, g){document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', f);})(function(){ta.trackEventOnPage('postLinkInline', 'impression', 'postLinks-83175175', '');}, 'log_autolink_impression');flights being canceled but good news is there putting people on other flights from what I read. Spirit didn't respond to a request for comments. Our pilots share a passion for safety, customer service and caring for their crews. A new contract would lock in the rates that any acquirer would have to pay Spirit pilots and at the same time could help to stem the attrition. Also in Pilot Blogs, Airline Blogs pprune.org/trendin.. 655 368 8 posts / day 7. Advanced Search Cancel . The union says the deal will raise pay by more than 30% over four years . It is irrelevant whether the union itself has anything to do with the action. Alternatively, you may use, http://spirit.alpa.org/portals/spamec/commdocs/2017-5-5MEC.pdf, https://www.facebook.com/pg/SpiritMEC/posts/?ref=page_internal. That would be a healthy gain if approved but it's likely to tank if it's not. ta.queueForLoad : function(f, g){document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', f);})(function(){ta.trackEventOnPage('postLinkInline', 'impression', 'postLinks-83184832', '');}, 'log_autolink_impression');flights. There were rumors of a pilot strike over the weekend, but in an email, representatives from the airline denied the claims. Reuters, the news and media division of Thomson Reuters, is the worlds largest multimedia news provider, reaching billions of people worldwide every day. A Spirit airlines plane is pushed back from the gate at Miami International Airport on July 27, 2022 in Miami, Florida. External site may not meet accessibility requirements. To list for a jumpseat on Spirit Airlines go to teamtravel.spirit.com. There's a reason I won't fly them. MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands It is against the APC Forum Rules to advocate any labor action which is not authorized by the RLA/NMB. Multi engine, told a story that explained what happened and what I learned, my private and my initial check ride for Mesa, Yes, oral exam for multi-engine commercial. Get this delivered to your inbox, and more info about our products and services. United Airlines James Coleman The old "Battleship" livery. When you become a Spirit Team Member, you join an airline that invests in Rock Stars like you! Just FYI. An honest dependable person who is always ready to lend a hand. The estimated base pay is $79,155 per year. Experience in 121 airlines or turbojet aircraft. In any case, Christie said, Spirit has sufficient pilots and lower costs. ta.queueForLoad : function(f, g){document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', f);})(function(){ta.trackEventOnPage('postLinkInline', 'impression', 'postLinks-83176015', '');}, 'log_autolink_impression');flights in FL affected. On the United call in April, Kirby declared, The pilot shortage is real, at least for the next five years. A chart distributed Wednesday to pilots by the Spirit chapter of the Air Line Pilots Association shows that year-to-date, Spirit has hired 359 pilots and lost 175 to other airlines,. Login with Google! Sign up to receive the latest financial news and events by email. Views Spirit credit card $100 companion flight voucher. You can also reach us at (800) 573-1848. Current FAA First Class Medical Certificate. A Spirit flight had to make an emergency stop after a battery fire on board, WTLV reported. (Photo by Robert Alexander) Images). Salary information comes from 51 data points collected directly from employees, users, and past and present job advertisements on Indeed in the past 36 months. According to a recent ALPA fact sheet, Regardless of what the airlines are saying, there is no pilot shortage and there are more than enough certificated pilots to meet demand here in the United States. (Reuters) - Spirit Airlines Inc has reached a five-year tentative agreement with its pilots for pay and benefit increases, the group's union said on Wednesday, signaling an end to an . Spirit Airlines announced a partnership with Lynn University that enables aspiring pilots to join its Spirit Wings Pilot Pathway program. In a letter to Spirit CEO Ted Christie, Ryan Muller, chairman of the Spirit ALPA chapter, offered to open contracts on a new contract. My Family and friends, Outdoor Activities, Real Estate Investing, Home improvement projects. This applies to ANY wildcat actions, including slowdown, work-to-rules, withdrawal of enthusiasm (WOE), sickouts, etc. First offline pilot to check in gets the jumpseat. Current First Class Medical Certificate My family, hiking, camping, playing the bass, knitting, cooking, My family, kids, photography, SUP Wheels, Paddle boarding, help others with their companies, excel spreadsheets. A listing can be made within 72 hours of departure time. As for the FAA maximums, the most common limit pilots to eight or nine hours of actual flight time per day and to 14 hours of duty time per day, which includes airport sitting time. Company cannot schedule a block of less than 4 days off unless waived by pilot, Line holders may drop to zero subject to monthly red/green grid. We have tried to provide the most accurate information here regarding hiring requirements for commercial airlines, we encourage you to contact the airline you're interested in working for directly to verify employment requirements. As a loyal friend, a person they can depend on. Buy house and repair them. This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. By clicking the Send button, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy, and to the use of cookies described therein, and you also consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the United States where the level of data protection may be different from that in your country. Jan. 11, 2023. CHICAGO, Dec 9 (Reuters) - Spirit Airlines (SAVE.N) has offered as much as a 43% cumulative weighted average pay raise to its pilots over two years, according to a union memo seen by Reuters. I like to mingle with real estate. 1,000 hours of multi-engine flight experience. Spirit didn't respond to a request for comments. CHICAGO, Dec 9 (Reuters) - Spirit Airlines has offered as much as a 43% cumulative weighted average pay raise to its pilots over two years, according to a union memo seen by Reuters. More people were applying to get pilot licenses, ATP licenses and instructor licenses. Spirit Airlines has offered as much as a 43% cumulative weighted average pay raise to its pilots over two years, according to a union memo seen by Reuters. In a tweet posted on April 28, ALPA President Joe DePete referred to an ALPA position paper headed More Than Enough Pilots to Meet U.S. Boarding a Spirit flight with a personal item and carry-on bag. Spirit Airlines, Inc. All Rights Reserved. 82N 60S. The aviation industry is currently producing more pilots capable of immediately stepping into the right seat than there are jobs available to them..